So far here's the City of Lawton's Action Plan regarding downtown:

http://www.cityof.lawton.ok.us/ActionPlan.pdf

According to Keith Jackson proposals will be coming soon for projects revitalizing downtown. There will be a streetscape up and down 2nd Street, and I've heard a rumour that there will be some 3-4 story loft buildings built around Avenue C and 2nd Street.

Land use concept map--

Wow, all of this looks really cool. I especially like the look of the "Office/Technology Park" rendering. Also it's nice to see such attention paid to pedestrians, but a pedestrian walk along an avenue median? Is that weird/dangerous?

The median in Gore is basically a city park. If traffic along Gore is slowed down, would be fine...

In looking at this plan, just how exactly are major retailers and major restaurant chains supposed to fit in with this plan? From the way things look on the map and the suggested uses there doesn't appear to be very much room.

Major retailers (such as Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, PetSmart, Pier 1 Imports, Kohls, etc.) need lots of parking space. They don't fit in well with a cozy tree lined street scape featuring art galleries, pubs, coffee shops and jazz clubs.

Major restaurant chains also require a good amount of parking, typically on pads of a sprawling shopping center design or at least along a major retail corridor with other like shops.

Is the plan to perhaps push all the major retailer type stuff along Gore Blvd. East of 2nd Street? Or do they intend to try to tuck that sort of thing behind 2nd Street along Railroad Ave.? If the latter is the idea, the planners may have to come up with some way to purchase up some of the tribe owned lands along I-44.

I'm hoping something positive will happen on all of this -positive in a manner that fits in stores like Target and Olive Garden. Otherwise it will be extremely disappointing. Residents of Lawton have been waiting for many years for such retailers to show up here in town. That seemed somewhat likely at the time when the 2 West side shopping centers were announced. But when the 2nd street idea was floated it also killed any efforts behind those two shopping centers.

The Lawton City Council and Chamber of Commerce is under considerable pressure to succeed in this 2nd street effort. If they fail to attract major new retailers and restaurant chains in this plan they'll also indirectly shoulder the blame for killing the other shopping center plans as well.

2 shopping centers? I thought it was one divided by Cache?

Anyway, there are also plans to do something with railway easement or something like that. Hard for me to recall. I need to find a way to get Keith Jackson back on after our forums were murdered.

A PierOne would be perfect this plan, and they don't require nearly as much parking as a Kohl's or a Target. The simple facts are contradicting. Which development philosophy do you believe?

* There is an appropriate location and an inappropriate location for any kind of development, and big-box stores simply don't belong downtown.
* Large retailers can work easily in a downtown, much like they did before suburbs came along, as long as the design is talored to be appropriate.

Personally, #2. That's what the city council intends to do, I believe.

The Wolf Creek shopping center would have been built along 82nd Street between Old Cache Road and US-62/Quannah Parker Trailway. The other unrelated development would have been built south of Old Cache Road alongside 82nd Street. Both shopping centers, for all intensive purposes, are effectively dead.

I subscribe to a philosophy that gets major retailers like Target to come to town already. Lawton does not at all ever need a 3rd stinking Wal-Mart. But that's actually the thing rumbling in the rumor mill all thanks to this pretty silly stalemate that has higher end retailers and restaurants avoiding coming to Lawton.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if Target locates along 2nd Street or 82nd Street or if they bulldoze a huge portion of property on the North side of Cache Road between Fort Sill Blvd. and Sheridan Road (that would be extremely great). The various politicals in their own vested camps have their own interests of a zero sum game in making sure their plan and only their plan goes through. And those who think that way have my prayers that they miserably fail.

I, and many other residents in Lawton, are way beyond tired of vaporware boasts and other BS jockeying that only seems to prevent progress from happening in this community.

It's been roughly 2 years or even longer since those two west side shopping centers were announced. It's been about a year or perhaps longer since they were put into a coma all thanks to the arguably vague announcements of the 2nd street project.

It seems as if the 2nd street project wants to steal all the retail thunder of major shopping center developments yet not provide the retail space, parking and traffic flow to service such developments itself. Honestly I have to wonder what the city council and chamber of commerce is really trying to accomplish.

Most Lawtonians just want a freaking Olive Garden and Target store already. They don't want some pie in the sky type of thing stuck in front of that being able to happen. I'm sorry if it hurts anyone's feelings, but if the 2nd Street Downtown Redevelopment project cannot accomplish attracting major retailers like Target and major restaurant chains like Olive Garden then they really need to get the hell out of the way and let some other developers who have some achievable goals get an honest chance without vaporware announcements defeating their plans.

You can have your cake and eat it too. You can have your Olive Garden and revitalize your downtown too.

It's just that I think Olive Garden and Target aren't going to be very practical to locate within the cozy designs of that 2nd Street plan. It may have been better for the 2nd Street camp to have allowed those companies to build out west where there was a lot more room for giant parking lots and stuff.

It seems like the folks in the 2nd Street camp wanted to corral all retail development possibilities under their tent even though they don't have the room for it. Big strip malls and artsy sidewalk districts (like those in Santa Fe or Colorado City) are two very different things.

There was more news about the 2nd Street / Downtown Revitalization plan this evening on KSWO. Officials with the Chamber of Commerce and some commercial developers, such as Mike Brown with CDBL, were showing off newer revised maps. But still there isn't much of any word at all regarding specific retailers or restaurant chains that will be moving into that development zone. And there still doesn't appear to be ample space for such large merchants like Target.

Another item I found especially odd was the developers' intention to have a movie theater built in that area. Lawton is already over-screened with 1st run movie theater screens as it is. The Carmike 8 on Lawton's west side is one of the best operated movie theaters in all of Oklahoma and is fixing to have all eight of its screens equipped with new 3-chip based 2K DLP digital cinema systems. The Carmike 8 is the only theater I will visit in the Lawton area. The Christie/AccessIT DLP upgrade for the Carmike 8 costs about $1.5 million. I don't see the Central Mall 12 theater matching that.

The only feasible ways I see a new movie theater being workable in or near downtown Lawton is if the Central Mall 12 theater closes. I wouldn't mind that happening since the former owners of Central Mall cut every possible corner having that complex built and wound up with a very non-impressive theater with cheap projectors and only 2 of 12 screens equipped for digital sound. The other alternative would be opening a theater that shows independent/art-house films. But there's not much of a market for that sort of thing in Lawton. I've seen a good number of critically acclaimed indie features come to Lawton and leave in a mere week from very poor attendance.

Any major movie theater chain will likely not want to build in the 2nd Street district anyway. Locating along 2nd Street they'll lose 50% of their titles to the Central Mall theater since both are too close to each other. And then there's not enough space for parking. New movie theater designs are destination sites on their own with at least 12 or more screens. They command large plots of space and have their own satellite restaurants and stores.

It sounds like they keep making plans for more plans. Why not just execute these plans? For any kind of development, I have never ever ever ever ever witnessed this much waiting. It's truly incredible and the city of Lawton is starting to loose credibility here. We've been waiting for a year and a half now or more it seems and apart from the original announcement and a few friendly public service reminders, and of course the rumour mill, there's been nothing. I think part of this can be blamed on the Lawton media for not actually being a citizen's advocate to uncover what is happening. God forbid there be any news!!!

This has been a massive effort by the Lawton Chamber of Commerce with all the necessary support of the City Council to revitalize downtown...

It seems like every city has to revitalize their Downtown at the same time...

I haven’t been to Lawton but heard some news from the Lawton Chamber that both sides where actually working tighter... People of Lawton have been waiting for something to happen other than the Army Base...

Overall, I think the Chamber of Commerce and Lawton City officials are taking a sort of risky "all or nothing" gamble with the 2nd Street project and retail development in Lawton in general.

If it weren't for the 2nd Street annoucement, the Wolf Creek shopping center out west would have been well under construction, if not all completed, by now. We're being forced to wait for something that may never arrive. The more details I see about this plan the less practical it seems for major retailers such as target.

For instance, what is to be done on improving the street infrastructure to fit in any of this stuff? 2nd Street/US-281 Business is out since it is intended to have many cozy shops and condos built right up next to the right of way. That would push the issue of improvement off onto streets like Railroad Avenue. Currently that street is a tiny two-way road with no shoulders. If a business like Target were to locate along it the road would have to be widened out to at least four lanes with a central turn lane, if not wider than that. The north end of Railroad, east end of Ferris Ave and the last stop light along 2nd Street just short of I-44 would all need to be revamped. That sort of thing would cost lots and lots of money -at least several million dollars for starters.

That's a gamble I'm fine with them taking though. I'm just ready to see something happen. I can't wait, it if pulls through it'll be great, if it doesn't then somebody will build some more retail out in the suburbs anyway.

Developing downtown

Major improvements envisioned


By Stephen Robertson

Staff writer
srobertson@lawton-constitution.com


If necessity is the mother of invention, opportunity may be the father.

Supporters of a new plan to revive downtown Lawton are hoping both parents are willing to nurture the latest effort to make the area a thriving business and residential district.

The Lawton Urban Renewal Authority has already obtained a grant to spruce up Northwest 2nd Street leading into downtown from Interstate 44, a project that has been used as a springboard to reconsider the entirety of Lawton's central business district. On Wednesday, city, county and civic leaders gathered at the Carnegie Library Town Hall to see what the future might hold for downtown.

It's not your father's downtown. But it might be your grandfather's.

The goal, developed into a plan by Stainback Public/Private Real Estate, is to mix shopping, entertainment and residential development into a compact area by design, not chance to create any area where people "live, work and play."

Consider adopting Resolution No. 06- supporting the inclusion of a streetscape enhancement project for Phase III of the 2nd Street Enhancement Project (Gore Boulevard to SW A Avenue) and Resolution No. 06- supporting the inclusion of a streetscape enhancement project for Phase IV of the 2nd Street Enhancement Project (SW A Avenue to SW C Avenue) as Transportation Enhancement Projects in the current Transportation Improvement Program (TIP).

http://www.cityof.lawton.ok.us/agendas/LMPOAG.htm