Islands in the river... and $800M

River: Development: Unveiling of islands plan is today
By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
9/6/2006

View in Print (PDF) Format

"The Channels," a plan to create a 10-mile lake and three self-contained, liveable islands in the Arkansas River, will be unveiled in detail to the public on Wednesday.

The Tulsa Stakeholders, a nonprofit group founded by six Tulsans, will make the presentation at 10:30 a.m. at the Manchester Room of the Doubletree Downtown, 616 W. Seventh St.

The group purchased a full-page ad in Tuesday's Tulsa World stating when and where the presentation would take place and inviting the public to attend.

Tulsa Stakeholders group envisions a public-private funding partnership and a public-private trust to manage the development of the islands.

The six leaders of the project are John-Kelly and Margie Warren; Tom Cooper; Scott and Chris Lambert; and Rusty Patton.

Funding for the project would come from $100 million in private funding and at least $500 million in public funds.

The goal of the Tulsa Stakeholders is to provide an environment that allows private development to occur.

The first phase of the project includes about an 18-foot-tall impounding dam beneath the 21st Street Bridge, which would create a 10-mile lake back into Sand Springs. This will open 20 miles of shoreline for development.

Three linked islands, encompassing about 40 acres, would be built in the river, stretching between the 21st Street and 11th Street bridges. There would be two access roads to the islands from the east bank of the Arkansas River.

The islands would feature entertainment, housing, commercial, hospitality, cultural and public uses.

The center island would house the bulk of the planned public use beneath a solar canopy providing a destination point for mixed activity.

The Tulsa Stakeholders commissioned waterfront expert Bing Thom to design the project. Thom also has been commissioned by the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which has provided a $10 million grant for Arkansas River public beautification and enhancement projects.

The first phase also will include the hardening and reconfiguring the river banks. Future plans include development along the west bank.

The project includes a host of conservation and high-tech systems. Energy supply sources proposed include hydropower from the dam, wind turbines and solar panels.

The plan also calls for environmentally friendly aspects, including harvesting rainwater, and high-tech recycling wastewater treatment plants and water conservation systems.

QUOTE

The project includes a host of conservation and high-tech systems. Energy supply sources proposed include hydropower from the dam, wind turbines and solar panels.

The plan also calls for environmentally friendly aspects, including harvesting rainwater, and high-tech recycling wastewater treatment plants and water conservation systems.

They are not leaving anything out...

Bing Thom to design the project--- He was the won that did it then... He was in town during the summer and said he was going to work on the river... So it's going to look something like Fort Worth’s?

He said he was going to "change things up a little."

New Plans For The Arkansas River In Tulsa
KOTV - 9/6/2006 9:52 AM - Updated: 9/6/2006 4:41 PM
A big and bold plan for Tulsa that could finally develop the Arkansas River. A group of prominent Tulsans wants to create a 40-acre man-made island in the middle of the river that would include residential and commercial development as well as a grand, public gathering space.

News on 6 reporter Steve Berg says they say in the old days, Tulsans used to think big. And they say it's time for Tulsans to think big again.

The call the project, the Channels. The islands would be connected to the east bank by two bridges. They say the east bank itself would be a large park opposite the islands with steps leading down to the river.

Of course, it all comes with a big price tag. They say it would take $600-million in public money. And they believe they can raise another $100-million through private donations.

It's a big goal, but John-Kelly Warren with Tulsa Stakeholders Inc. says other cities are developing their rivers and says if Tulsa doesn't, it will be left behind. "It's out greatest natural resource and my message would be, let's do it right, we have one opportunity to make Tulsa even greater than it is."

Warren stresses that they aren't developers. He says they created this plan and they'll solicit donations, but he says they personally will not profit from it.

---

Some pics

user posted image

http://www.tulsachannels.com/
http://www.tulsachannels.com/video.asp

Does anyone else think that the guy in that last photo appears to be throwing all of his money into the river?

Wow, it's beautiful. I really hope it happens.

Welcome to the forum waterboy!

What's the white mole hill-looking thing? Snow? Why not, man-made snow on a man-made island in a man-made lake on a mostly man-made river. Makes sense to me...

I do wonder if this proposal wouldn't be just as splendid if it was on DRY land.

Wow is the first thing that came out of my mouth... The Video was pretty good and it’s something Tulsa can use... The project looks amazing...

The wind farm is sweet idea...

Is this going to pass with the people if it goes down for a vote? I would vote yes...

QUOTE

Warren stresses that they aren't developers. He says they created this plan and they'll solicit donations, but he says they personally will not profit from it.

If they aren't devolpers. than I sure hope a good group gets this project...

Total cost= $788 million.

QUOTE (Spartan65 @ September 05, 2006 08:09 pm)

QUOTE

-Cost of providing police and fire services. Will have to be dual access service from both the water and the causeways. The current services will not be able to provide for an inner city lake and insurance companies are going to notice that. If private boats are allowed, plan for major increases in police and fire rescue operations.

There's a fire station right off Denver, a few blocks north of 21st, and it's not too far from other police stations either. I don't see how developing a little further int the river is any differant than development out in the suburbs. But I can see where several dense high-rise clusters could put strain on the system.

QUOTE

-Since the river is now a navigable waterway with ports along its 10 mile length, it will come under the auspices of the US Coast Guard. Yet another layer of bureauracracy added to: Levee district, Highway patrol lakeshore division, Tulsa County Sheriff, TPD, River Parks Authority, City of Sand Springs to name a few. This is no small thing. Coast Guard regs are serious stuff and expensive to meet.

I thought that the shipping lines stopped at Catoosa. I did hear that Wichita wanted to be included on the list of inland port cities, but this didn't seem likely and I don't think it would be good for Tulsa, considering Tulsa is one of if not THE further inland port.

QUOTE

-The refinery will have to be closed, moved, blown up...something. Not only will the water rise over its banks but its smell and lovely visage won't be accepted by multi-use affluent tenants on the islands.

There is no doubt about this one, and no questions because I hear you loud and clear. It's an interesting thought though, if whether having the refineries there, as vital as they are, means that the river by downtown can not be developed.

QUOTE

-Re-routing or removal of oil pipelines, sanitary sewer lines and electrical lines that criss cross the river in that area. One high voltage line that crosses is already just 6ft off the water during evening flows.

How expensive is that though? It can't be that much, although I'm sure the oil companies will pull a fast one on us, "And this is a FOX News update! Oil pipelines is currently being relocated in the middle of the Arkansas River in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Expect consumers to feal a pinch."

QUOTE

-Private land buyouts. One property owner along the river in that area has a deed showing ownership of three islands granted to him by the Corps when the dam was built. Think he'll sell cheap? And he is one of many private owners along there who will need to be bought out or reimbursed for increased insurance costs.

Hey, isn't that what eminent domain is for? okmetropolis/028.gif

QUOTE

-Two of the industrial owners along that stretch are Baker Petrolite who manufactures the explosives used in well drilling and the Sand Springs sewage treatment plant. Increased water levels will require strengthening and raising the levees there. One wonders about the logic of having explosive compounds near a levee.

Those will probably have to be moved.

QUOTE

-When Creek indians were chased by Confederate soldiers across this area from the west, they were cornered by the troops in the area where the Sun refinery now sits. The rebs, thinking they had them captured because of the river nearby, camped out for the evening and planned to finish up in the morning. When they awakened, the indians were gone. Having hunted and fished the area, the Indians knew about the rock crossing at that point. It is a slip fault that creates a small set of rapids that goes all the way across the river. They literally, "knew where the rocks were" and walked across during the night. Later settlers used the outcropping as the only sure place to cross the river. When the water is up they make fantastic kayaking waves. This history and this opportunity for pleasure will now be at least 10 ft under water.

QUOTE

-It has been reported that there is a potential pre-historic mammoth pit in the area also but no attempts have been made to explore it as to not risk a possible oil spill from old refinery operations.

So what do you do in that case?

QUOTE

I would love to operate deep water craft in this lake. Of course it won't stay deep for very long, but the positives are obvious. These are some of the costs that are not apparent at first glance. They will become all too real if such a large dam is built.

Sounds like $600M to me. okmetropolis/dontknow.gif

Thanks, good questions. Let me address some of them.

*The firestation on Denver. Actually its at 18th & Boston. Right around the corner from my home. The nearest police station is the South division about 5 miles south. But their distance is not the issue. The firemen at the 18st are designated rescue squad for that part of the river. They have no rescue boats at the station. Strange but true. One of the firefighters told me frankly, they rescue dead bodies. That's because there is currently little activity on the river and the TFD doesn't spend much money on river rescue boats and training. Recently some teens got stuck on a sand bar at the Riverwalk and it took 90minutes for TFD to respond and rescue them. Jenks doesn't have any equipment at all!

*The Coast Guard does not currently consider the river navigable North of its confluence with the Kerr-McClellan Navigation channel. But if they build this dam the river in Tulsa will fall under the purview of the CG as it will meet requirements whether we want them or not. Actually it will be a good thing for safety, but sets the bar higher for everyone.

*The re-routing of pipelines, sewer lines etc. could turn out to be a nightmare. The river has many secrets dating back to refineries at the turn of the century when it was not so closely monitored. No telling what they'll come across. Ever pulled panelling off a wall and wished you hadn't?! It was reported today that the two islands in Zink Lake are actually toxic waste dumps from earlier refineries. BTW the companies involved have long since dissappeared and the public will bear the cost.

*Private land buyouts. Man, what a mess. The tribes will all line up to support this plan as they still assert ownership of the riverbed and intend to be partners by force. Other lands will be taken but can also go to court if they don't feel the money is enough...and it won't be.

*The moving of the sewage treatment plant and Baker Petrolite is not foreseen by this group. Neither was it anticcipated by Sand Springs in their plan. But they should be moved.

The cost has now risen to over $800 million. I suspect it rise to a billion and doesn't include the above hidden costs to the public. Its going to be controversial to say the least.

QUOTE

What's the white mole hill-looking thing?

Its that cage looking thing they built in Chicago--- There should be a picture of it on page 3...

Tulsa World breaks it down

Arkansas River island plan would cost $788 million
By World Staff
9/6/2006

A plan to create 40 acres of manmade islands in the middle of the Arkansas will cost $788 million, its envisioners said Wednesday.

Tulsa Stakeholders Inc. has been formed to privately raise $100 million of the price tag for "The Channels."

The sale of energy created by the project's hydrodam and other renewable energies would finance $88 million.

The rest -- $600 million -- would have to come in the form of public financing.

"Tulsa has a history of projects breathtaking in scope that set it on a path to greatness and international attention," said John--Kelly Warren, a member of the stakeholders group that is spearheading the project.

"Today can be the start of the Tulsa of tomorrow. It's' time to be bold. It's time to make The Channels a reality."

The first phase of the project includes about an 18-foot-tall impounding dam beneath the 21st Street Bridge, which would create a 10-mile lake back into Sand Springs and open 20 miles

of shoreline for development.

Three linked islands would be built in the river, stretching between the 21st Street and 11th Street bridges. There would be two access roads to the islands from the east bank of the Arkansas River.

The islands would feature entertainment, housing, commercial, hospitality, cultural and public uses

QUOTE

The cost has now risen to over $800 million. I suspect it rise to a billion and doesn't include the above hidden costs to the public. Its going to be controversial to say the least.

Yes your right, it is going to cost more than a billion for this project... Just building and getting the Islands ready would probably cost $500 million...

I watched the Tulsa world video they had made during the Confrence---

Tulsa World Video

The lady mentioned that 3,000 residents would be able to live on the Island...

QUOTE (waterboy @ September 06, 2006 08:17 pm)

QUOTE (Spartan65 @ September 05, 2006 08:09 pm)

QUOTE

-Cost of providing police and fire services. Will have to be dual access service from both the water and the causeways. The current services will not be able to provide for an inner city lake and insurance companies are going to notice that. If private boats are allowed, plan for major increases in police and fire rescue operations.

There's a fire station right off Denver, a few blocks north of 21st, and it's not too far from other police stations either. I don't see how developing a little further int the river is any differant than development out in the suburbs. But I can see where several dense high-rise clusters could put strain on the system.

QUOTE

-Since the river is now a navigable waterway with ports along its 10 mile length, it will come under the auspices of the US Coast Guard. Yet another layer of bureauracracy added to: Levee district, Highway patrol lakeshore division, Tulsa County Sheriff, TPD, River Parks Authority, City of Sand Springs to name a few. This is no small thing. Coast Guard regs are serious stuff and expensive to meet.

I thought that the shipping lines stopped at Catoosa. I did hear that Wichita wanted to be included on the list of inland port cities, but this didn't seem likely and I don't think it would be good for Tulsa, considering Tulsa is one of if not THE further inland port.

QUOTE

-The refinery will have to be closed, moved, blown up...something. Not only will the water rise over its banks but its smell and lovely visage won't be accepted by multi-use affluent tenants on the islands.

There is no doubt about this one, and no questions because I hear you loud and clear. It's an interesting thought though, if whether having the refineries there, as vital as they are, means that the river by downtown can not be developed.

QUOTE

-Re-routing or removal of oil pipelines, sanitary sewer lines and electrical lines that criss cross the river in that area. One high voltage line that crosses is already just 6ft off the water during evening flows.

How expensive is that though? It can't be that much, although I'm sure the oil companies will pull a fast one on us, "And this is a FOX News update! Oil pipelines is currently being relocated in the middle of the Arkansas River in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Expect consumers to feal a pinch."

QUOTE

-Private land buyouts. One property owner along the river in that area has a deed showing ownership of three islands granted to him by the Corps when the dam was built. Think he'll sell cheap? And he is one of many private owners along there who will need to be bought out or reimbursed for increased insurance costs.

Hey, isn't that what eminent domain is for? okmetropolis/028.gif

QUOTE

-Two of the industrial owners along that stretch are Baker Petrolite who manufactures the explosives used in well drilling and the Sand Springs sewage treatment plant. Increased water levels will require strengthening and raising the levees there. One wonders about the logic of having explosive compounds near a levee.

Those will probably have to be moved.

QUOTE

-When Creek indians were chased by Confederate soldiers across this area from the west, they were cornered by the troops in the area where the Sun refinery now sits. The rebs, thinking they had them captured because of the river nearby, camped out for the evening and planned to finish up in the morning. When they awakened, the indians were gone. Having hunted and fished the area, the Indians knew about the rock crossing at that point. It is a slip fault that creates a small set of rapids that goes all the way across the river. They literally, "knew where the rocks were" and walked across during the night. Later settlers used the outcropping as the only sure place to cross the river. When the water is up they make fantastic kayaking waves. This history and this opportunity for pleasure will now be at least 10 ft under water.

QUOTE

-It has been reported that there is a potential pre-historic mammoth pit in the area also but no attempts have been made to explore it as to not risk a possible oil spill from old refinery operations.

So what do you do in that case?

QUOTE

I would love to operate deep water craft in this lake. Of course it won't stay deep for very long, but the positives are obvious. These are some of the costs that are not apparent at first glance. They will become all too real if such a large dam is built.

Sounds like $600M to me. okmetropolis/dontknow.gif

Thanks, good questions. Let me address some of them.

*The firestation on Denver. Actually its at 18th & Boston. Right around the corner from my home. The nearest police station is the South division about 5 miles south. But their distance is not the issue. The firemen at the 18st are designated rescue squad for that part of the river. They have no rescue boats at the station. Strange but true. One of the firefighters told me frankly, they rescue dead bodies. That's because there is currently little activity on the river and the TFD doesn't spend much money on river rescue boats and training. Recently some teens got stuck on a sand bar at the Riverwalk and it took 90minutes for TFD to respond and rescue them. Jenks doesn't have any equipment at all!

*The Coast Guard does not currently consider the river navigable North of its confluence with the Kerr-McClellan Navigation channel. But if they build this dam the river in Tulsa will fall under the purview of the CG as it will meet requirements whether we want them or not. Actually it will be a good thing for safety, but sets the bar higher for everyone.

*The re-routing of pipelines, sewer lines etc. could turn out to be a nightmare. The river has many secrets dating back to refineries at the turn of the century when it was not so closely monitored. No telling what they'll come across. Ever pulled panelling off a wall and wished you hadn't?! It was reported today that the two islands in Zink Lake are actually toxic waste dumps from earlier refineries. BTW the companies involved have long since dissappeared and the public will bear the cost.

*Private land buyouts. Man, what a mess. The tribes will all line up to support this plan as they still assert ownership of the riverbed and intend to be partners by force. Other lands will be taken but can also go to court if they don't feel the money is enough...and it won't be.

*The moving of the sewage treatment plant and Baker Petrolite is not foreseen by this group. Neither was it anticcipated by Sand Springs in their plan. But they should be moved.

The cost has now risen to over $800 million. I suspect it rise to a billion and doesn't include the above hidden costs to the public. Its going to be controversial to say the least.

Surprises in the river. Are they really surprises? If a group is going to ask for hundreds of millions, then there better be no surprises. You would think they would think it all out.
Furthermore...

(exerpt from a post on another Tulsa forum)

I completely and totally disagree with almost everything said in this here forum. Oh and hi, my name is Nick.

What is Tulsa? What is it not? Energetic, fun, dazzling, and so many other retarded adjectives. Why can't Tulsa be dazzling... fabulous? It's because people are so worried about a 4th penny sales tax that capital improvement projects are rarely passed. It took the third try to get Tulsa County voters to allow economic development to occur with Vision 2025.

I think Tulsa is one of the prettiest cities in America. It has a really nice river, a really nice Midtown, and a pretty swell downtown area, and of course nice suburbs... but the river is so obviously underutilized (as is the downtown area) that it's not even funny. The only viable community assets or otherwise neat areas on the river that I can imagine are some suburban shopping centers, and Turkey Mountain, and Lord only knows what goes on up there...

I support this because it would be a good step towards revitalizing the riverside area. It would be really neat, I think, to have a riverside district unlike that of any other city in the nation. And can you imagine how if we build these islands up, how the rest of Midtown and Downtown will change as well?

And you can't tell me you hate the inner city... who here has not wanted to live in a house in Maple Ridge?

Dang you breaking it down for them on TN...

Let the group raise the $100 million first... After they raise the money, let the city go ahead with the vote when it comes down to it...

I dont think many people are going to make a move until the group shows the $100 million and the sponsors and then we can talk...